Subject: Re: New OT V EP
From: "Rogers" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 04:09:39 -0400
Newsgroups: alt.clearing.technology

I wrote:
>> I don't think there were THAT many schools (considering it WAS
>> an "underground" function in a predominantly christian society).
>> As such, it was mostly standard.

norman_suchanek wrote in message <[email-masked]>...
>Standardized by whom and when ?

Hi Norman,

Hmmm, that word "standardized" is a bit stronger than what I was trying to
convey.  I'm just saying that there were only a few major schools and the
information "passed down" was exactly that, passed down, so there was a bit
of consistency (and certainly everybody wanted to operate magick safely and
effectively so the motive was there to learn the "traditional" ropes
carefully).

>He lived until the mid of this century in Germany and Czecoslovakia.
>He wrote some books which are basically step-by-step training ;
>these books are at least available in the above languages.  His
>profane name was Franz Bardon.

Okay, THAT name I recognize.

>Some of his practices, drills and rituals are similar to those
>of Crowley ( Therion ), but Arion didn't recommend rituals to
>kill children 'for their own spiritual advantage' like Crowley
>did ( a concept which I find worse than disgusting ).  Arion puts
>great stress on responsible use of his 'tech'  -  far beyond
>Crowley's 'do what thou wilt'.

You're gonna be giving Phil some ammunition here.  If you don't mind me
chirping in, I would say that Arion had two confusions in the above.  The
ritual in which Crowley talks about sacrificing, oh how does it go...
something like, "a child of perfect intelligence" wasn't meant to be taken
literally.  Once again, it is comparable to the "blood drinking" in the
catholic church.  Secondly, there is a MAJOR confusion about Crowley's "Do
what thou wilt."  I have seen a couple of ingenious interpretations of this
on THIS newsgroup.  One was like, an apathetic "who cares? do what the hell
you want."  But the general one is like "indulge yourself, do what you
want."  Neither of these are proper to the spirit of the phrase as
understood by Crowley.  In many respects it was a GOAL for the initiate, it
wasn't meant to be accessible by the person in the street.  It all comes
down to what the "Will" is and who the "Thou" is.  When these two things are
sorted out, after many years of studying and practicing and contemplation,
only THEN might one be in a position to Do what thou wilt.

>Those who have a grasp of 8-8008 will understand some concepts and
>drills by Crowley and Arion quite easily.

Those who have a grasp on Scientology can understand a helluva lot about any
and all other practices, but I wouldn't want anyone to read the above and
assume that Ron got his stuff from a previous practice.  I'm sure that was
NOT Norman's intent, but I just wanted to mention it.

>> But for all I know, it may be just standard sorcery tech... but
>> in that case it really should be differentiated from Magick proper.
>
>Alright ... what about giving some definitions of how these
>subjects relate to each other ?

Ha ha!  You're "calling" me on this huh?  Okay, I'll give it a shot but I
can't promise it will be complete or exhaustive.

Firstly, in both magick and sorcery (as in life in general) "goodness" and
"badness" are just considerations.  In other words, they are not inherent to
the subjects.  It all comes down to the intention behind them.  Bad
intentions equate to "bad" (or black) magick or sorcery.

With that out of the way, there comes but a subtle (as well as idealistic)
differentiation: sorcery is self-willed magick, High Magick involves
Higher-Self-willed magick but is also, perhaps even more so, a vehicle for
ascension.

Best,  Les.